As I have committed to buying a MR2 power steering pump, then this may be useful wrt installation.
http://www.driveev.com/jeepev/convpgs/psteer.php
Tuesday, October 21, 2008
sensor sources for power steering
from evdl
I use 3/8 round neo magnets that I got from ACE Hardward, A Ice Cube plug
in time delay relay from a All Electronics, and the Bosch 70 amps 12 volt
relay from any auto parts store.
The magnet sensor switch is the type we use for sensing the windows and
doors for a alarm system. I use the round 5/16 diamter ones, which I push
into a drill hole in a aluminum mounting strap. These sensors also are from
www.allelectronics.com
Roland
I use 3/8 round neo magnets that I got from ACE Hardward, A Ice Cube plug
in time delay relay from a All Electronics, and the Bosch 70 amps 12 volt
relay from any auto parts store.
The magnet sensor switch is the type we use for sensing the windows and
doors for a alarm system. I use the round 5/16 diamter ones, which I push
into a drill hole in a aluminum mounting strap. These sensors also are from
www.allelectronics.com
Roland
Saturday, October 18, 2008
Flooded battery balancing - soul
http://www.nabble.com/new-battery-break-in-td13294226ef25542.html#a13301565
but from other posts, this Roland bloke does some strange stuff!
Re: new battery break-in
Click to flag this post
by Roland Wiench Oct 20, 2007; 02:22am :: Rate this Message: - Use ratings to moderate (?)
Reply | Reply to Author | Print | View Threaded | Show Only this Message
200 amps! That's ok for motor amps, but not battery amps. I been now
driving with my latest battery pack for six years now and the average
battery amps is about 50 amps mostly at city driving at about 30 mph at 5000
rpm at a gear ratio of 13.5:1.
The 200 amps would be my motor amperes that may range from 100 to 400 amps.
The minimum ampere while parking may below 10 amps and accelerating normally
may be 75 amps and accelerating up a slight incline is about 125 amps. Only
one time, I took the battery amps to 250 amps after the battery was broke in
after about 2 years of driving, to see how much shrink back I had at the
post which was about 5 in.lbs.
To break in my batteries, I first torque all the battery connections to 75
in.lbs. Check the electrolyte level to make sure the electrolyte is above
the plates. Do not add water at this time if it looks low. Electrolyte
will be low in a discharge battery and will rise in a charge battery.
Charge the batteries to 1.250 S.G. which is about 90% state of charge.
Check the electrolyte level again. If its not up to the bottom of the fill
well, than add distill water to that level and than continue to charge the
battery to 1.275 S.G. or to 100% S.O.C.
Record the voltages of each battery and record the battery pack voltage
about 12 hours later after rest and record that voltage.
I then pull a 50 amp load for 1 mile and record the battery pack volt drop,
repeat that for 4 more miles and check specific gravity of the batteries,
which tells me how much S.G. per mile I am using. I then re-torque the
battery connections which will lose about 5 in.lbs in the first 5 miles.
This is common for new connections to lose this much torque where that the
surface of the lead is not completely compress.
During these test, it is best to not drop the State of Charge (SOC) of the
battery below 75%. Re-charge the battery at no more the 10 percent of the
rated Ampere Hour of the battery and repeat the test, except check the
battery S.G. after 5 miles and re-torque at 10 miles.
Checking the battery connections at 5, 10, 20, 40, etc. miles, you will find
that the torque lost may be only 1-2 in.lbs per month of driving.
Check the electrolyte level after about one week which will tell you how
often you will have to add distill water. Remember never add water when the
battery is low while it is discharge.
If a battery is setting for a while, it is normal for the battery acid
(H2SO4) will settle to the bottom of the cell, making the bottom read a
higher specific gravity reading while the top portion will read weaker.
Always charge first, add water when need at the 90% charge and finish
charging, which makes this added water mix better.
Another thing to watch out for, which happen to me, is that I had a group of
batteries, that was only partially fill by the factory with 1.275
electrolyte which was still about 3/8 inch below the fill well. Adding
water at a 1.275 S.G. reading only make the electrolyte weaker and trying to
charge the battery, boil off the water anyway. It is best at that time, is
to finish adding 1.275 S.G. electrolyte which you can get at some battery
shops.
After running the EV for a month, checking the electrolyte S.G. and level,
torque, load testing, and voltage, there is a battery conductance leakage
test and battery current shunt test that could be perform.
The conductance leakage test, is the voltage of a battery terminal that is
conducting across the plastic battery tops to either the other post of the
battery or batteries and/or to vehicle ground while charging and not
charging the batteries.
To do this battery current leakage test during charging, apply all the
safety cautions. I use a insulated electrical blankets, that I draped over
any metal portion of the vehicle. Turn the charger on and connect one test
lead to a battery post and the other lead to the battery top starting next
to that same post and slide it to the edge of the battery top, off the
battery case and on to the battery racks or enclosure. If you see any
voltage reading it is time to clean the batteries.
In stead of re-torque of the connections every month or so. I use a battery
connection shunt current test. While the battery charger is on, connect
your volt meter in the milliamp scale and connect in parallel with the
battery links. Do not connect it to the links itself, rather connect it to
the battery post.
Lets say it reads. 0.005 amps at a torque connection of 75 in.lbs. it may
read 0.009 amps at a lower torque reading and may read 0.001 amps at a
higher torque reading. Use that higher torque reading as a reference and
check the shunt current of every link and adjust the higher shunt amp
reading to match the lowest shunt amp readings. In this way you do not have
to run the torque wrench over every battery connection.
You also can sweep a infer-red temperature scanner over the batteries and
battery connections to a quick test. A good meter will have a heat sensor
to do this type of test.
If you can stand to do all these battery maintenance checks, which I now
been doing for 34 years now. You can a very long life out of your batteries.
Roland
but from other posts, this Roland bloke does some strange stuff!
Re: new battery break-in
Click to flag this post
by Roland Wiench Oct 20, 2007; 02:22am :: Rate this Message: - Use ratings to moderate (?)
Reply | Reply to Author | Print | View Threaded | Show Only this Message
200 amps! That's ok for motor amps, but not battery amps. I been now
driving with my latest battery pack for six years now and the average
battery amps is about 50 amps mostly at city driving at about 30 mph at 5000
rpm at a gear ratio of 13.5:1.
The 200 amps would be my motor amperes that may range from 100 to 400 amps.
The minimum ampere while parking may below 10 amps and accelerating normally
may be 75 amps and accelerating up a slight incline is about 125 amps. Only
one time, I took the battery amps to 250 amps after the battery was broke in
after about 2 years of driving, to see how much shrink back I had at the
post which was about 5 in.lbs.
To break in my batteries, I first torque all the battery connections to 75
in.lbs. Check the electrolyte level to make sure the electrolyte is above
the plates. Do not add water at this time if it looks low. Electrolyte
will be low in a discharge battery and will rise in a charge battery.
Charge the batteries to 1.250 S.G. which is about 90% state of charge.
Check the electrolyte level again. If its not up to the bottom of the fill
well, than add distill water to that level and than continue to charge the
battery to 1.275 S.G. or to 100% S.O.C.
Record the voltages of each battery and record the battery pack voltage
about 12 hours later after rest and record that voltage.
I then pull a 50 amp load for 1 mile and record the battery pack volt drop,
repeat that for 4 more miles and check specific gravity of the batteries,
which tells me how much S.G. per mile I am using. I then re-torque the
battery connections which will lose about 5 in.lbs in the first 5 miles.
This is common for new connections to lose this much torque where that the
surface of the lead is not completely compress.
During these test, it is best to not drop the State of Charge (SOC) of the
battery below 75%. Re-charge the battery at no more the 10 percent of the
rated Ampere Hour of the battery and repeat the test, except check the
battery S.G. after 5 miles and re-torque at 10 miles.
Checking the battery connections at 5, 10, 20, 40, etc. miles, you will find
that the torque lost may be only 1-2 in.lbs per month of driving.
Check the electrolyte level after about one week which will tell you how
often you will have to add distill water. Remember never add water when the
battery is low while it is discharge.
If a battery is setting for a while, it is normal for the battery acid
(H2SO4) will settle to the bottom of the cell, making the bottom read a
higher specific gravity reading while the top portion will read weaker.
Always charge first, add water when need at the 90% charge and finish
charging, which makes this added water mix better.
Another thing to watch out for, which happen to me, is that I had a group of
batteries, that was only partially fill by the factory with 1.275
electrolyte which was still about 3/8 inch below the fill well. Adding
water at a 1.275 S.G. reading only make the electrolyte weaker and trying to
charge the battery, boil off the water anyway. It is best at that time, is
to finish adding 1.275 S.G. electrolyte which you can get at some battery
shops.
After running the EV for a month, checking the electrolyte S.G. and level,
torque, load testing, and voltage, there is a battery conductance leakage
test and battery current shunt test that could be perform.
The conductance leakage test, is the voltage of a battery terminal that is
conducting across the plastic battery tops to either the other post of the
battery or batteries and/or to vehicle ground while charging and not
charging the batteries.
To do this battery current leakage test during charging, apply all the
safety cautions. I use a insulated electrical blankets, that I draped over
any metal portion of the vehicle. Turn the charger on and connect one test
lead to a battery post and the other lead to the battery top starting next
to that same post and slide it to the edge of the battery top, off the
battery case and on to the battery racks or enclosure. If you see any
voltage reading it is time to clean the batteries.
In stead of re-torque of the connections every month or so. I use a battery
connection shunt current test. While the battery charger is on, connect
your volt meter in the milliamp scale and connect in parallel with the
battery links. Do not connect it to the links itself, rather connect it to
the battery post.
Lets say it reads. 0.005 amps at a torque connection of 75 in.lbs. it may
read 0.009 amps at a lower torque reading and may read 0.001 amps at a
higher torque reading. Use that higher torque reading as a reference and
check the shunt current of every link and adjust the higher shunt amp
reading to match the lowest shunt amp readings. In this way you do not have
to run the torque wrench over every battery connection.
You also can sweep a infer-red temperature scanner over the batteries and
battery connections to a quick test. A good meter will have a heat sensor
to do this type of test.
If you can stand to do all these battery maintenance checks, which I now
been doing for 34 years now. You can a very long life out of your batteries.
Roland
Flooded vs AGM
From EVDL
http://www.nabble.com/Discover-agms---td13508499ef25542.html#a13514772
If you are the sort who looks after your batteries, then it would be difficult to recommend any sealed battery over floodies in terms of cost. You will need a decent charger to hope to approach the rated cycle life for any type of battery. If you need to locate batteries in the passenger compartment or someplace where access for routine maintenance will be difficult, then sealed batteries may be appropriate. If you want a stiffer pack, then AGMs may be appropriate.
Also
A 6V flooded battery is typically rated to about 700 cycles @ 80%DOD, and this will increase dramatically at shallower DOD, just as it does for the AGMs.
Without digging up the Discover specs to fins a cycle vs DOD plot, I would expect them to deliver about 300-400 cycles @ 80%DOD, or about 1/2 the cycles of the floodeds.
http://www.nabble.com/Discover-agms---td13508499ef25542.html#a13514772
If you are the sort who looks after your batteries, then it would be difficult to recommend any sealed battery over floodies in terms of cost. You will need a decent charger to hope to approach the rated cycle life for any type of battery. If you need to locate batteries in the passenger compartment or someplace where access for routine maintenance will be difficult, then sealed batteries may be appropriate. If you want a stiffer pack, then AGMs may be appropriate.
Also
A 6V flooded battery is typically rated to about 700 cycles @ 80%DOD, and this will increase dramatically at shallower DOD, just as it does for the AGMs.
Without digging up the Discover specs to fins a cycle vs DOD plot, I would expect them to deliver about 300-400 cycles @ 80%DOD, or about 1/2 the cycles of the floodeds.
Friday, October 17, 2008
hardware for battery boxes
from
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev/message/36524
I went to the boat store to buy the flanges and the hose. There's
lots of good stuff at the boat store for hardware to vent bilges
which works well for venting battery boxes.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev/message/36524
I went to the boat store to buy the flanges and the hose. There's
lots of good stuff at the boat store for hardware to vent bilges
which works well for venting battery boxes.
T-105 suppliers
http://www.batteryguru.com.au/10.html
at $190 each - that is lookign pretty good!
http://www.energymatters.com.au/trojan-flooded-lead-acid-battery-6v-250ah-p-197.html
$240 each
at $190 each - that is lookign pretty good!
http://www.energymatters.com.au/trojan-flooded-lead-acid-battery-6v-250ah-p-197.html
$240 each
more sealded battery box ideas
Kiwi ev had some good ideas - mentions some waterproof/flameproof/chemical resistant paint for sealing and turbo timers for ensuring that the fans stay running after charging (may be a good idea before charging, but sensing the vacuum may be enough)
nice clips on the battery box as well - but maybe should be locked?
http://www.kiwiev.com/Step%20Fourteen%20-%20Installing%20the%20Batteries.htm
nice clips on the battery box as well - but maybe should be locked?
http://www.kiwiev.com/Step%20Fourteen%20-%20Installing%20the%20Batteries.htm
Wet Lead Acid
I think it is time to have a serious look at using wet lead acid batteries.
If I use Trojan T-105 batteries, It will be about $100 cheapter per 12V and I will get 225Ahr instead of 150Ahrs, all for about the same weight.
I also have the peace of mind that these are proven in ev applications (unlike the chinese AGMs that are the alternative)
If I go that way then I need to do some careful battery box design - here is a good article from EVDL mentioning the use of a sensitive vacuum switch - sounds like a good idea to me
http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-td17693571
Re: Battery box fan
Click to flag this post
by Roland Wiench Jun 07, 2008; 12:53am :: Rate this Message: - Use ratings to moderate (?)
Reply | Reply to Author | Print | View Threaded | Show Only this Message
Hell Barry,
I do not use 12 VDC to run my battery box ventilation fan. It's a 120 VAC
120 cfm fan that is inline with a heavy duty 2 inch inside diameter flexible
PVC acid proof flex hose that has 1/4 inch thick walls. The fan and fan
blades are all plastic and the electrical fan wires are seal in totally
enclose compartments at the fan connections.
I now have been running 33 years with out a fan ventilating the battery
enclosure while the EV is moving. There is a 2 inch pvc pipe that goes
below the EV and is elbow forward with a screen and 3M filter material in
it. The forward movement of the EV brings in air into the battery enclosure
and exits out the other side.
This fan is used only when I charge the batteries. I install the battery
box ventilation control system, just like we do in gas fire boiler systems.
First, I must turn on the fan switch which the fan must run first to clear
any battery venting that may be present. A pressure/vacuum switch detects
the movement of air present and it will then turn on a 2-pole DC contactor
that then connects the output leads of the battery charger to the battery.
The pressure/vacuum switches are super sensitive and you can get them from a
heating and plumbing supplier.
When the fan is up and running and the flow of air is present, a fan
indicator lite will come on, a flow air lite comes on. I then turn on the
charger contactor which also gives me a indication, that I am connected.
I then look at the on board charger panel meters which is a AC volt, AC amp,
DC volt and DC amp. The AC volt meter will indicated that my AC main plug
is contacted and the DC volt meter indicates that I have main battery power
present up to the battery charger output contactor.
Before I turn on my charge, I make sure that the charger circuit breaker is
off and the current knob is at 0 amps. I then turn on the breaker, and
while watching the AC and DC ampere, I turn the current up while watching
the indicators meters.
At any time the battery box exhaust fan fails, the fan pressure/vacuum
switch then turns off the DC contactor which removes the charger circuit
from the batteries. A larger second fan maintains a positive air pressure
in a separate totally enclose charger compartment.
The battery box exhaust exits out the bottom of the EV like a exhaust pipe
does. If I park in the garage with the garage door down, I run out a exhaust
hose either under the garage door or use a garage door port, like you see in
gas stations.
My garage maintains a 70 degree temperature a year, so when I am charging
the batteries, the fans pull this 70 degree garage air through a 3-M filter
which I cut out of a large 2 inch thick 3M filter material and insert it
into the air input side of the battery box ventilation system.
You must be care full not to cross feed the battery box exhaust system with
the air input. At one time, I did not have this fan exhaust system install
this way. Could always detect a battery vent order. I went into the garage
where I was charging the batteries and when I turn off the charger, this
ignited some hydrogen in the charger compartment and blew the charger
bridge.
Roland
If I use Trojan T-105 batteries, It will be about $100 cheapter per 12V and I will get 225Ahr instead of 150Ahrs, all for about the same weight.
I also have the peace of mind that these are proven in ev applications (unlike the chinese AGMs that are the alternative)
If I go that way then I need to do some careful battery box design - here is a good article from EVDL mentioning the use of a sensitive vacuum switch - sounds like a good idea to me
http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-td17693571
Re: Battery box fan
Click to flag this post
by Roland Wiench Jun 07, 2008; 12:53am :: Rate this Message: - Use ratings to moderate (?)
Reply | Reply to Author | Print | View Threaded | Show Only this Message
Hell Barry,
I do not use 12 VDC to run my battery box ventilation fan. It's a 120 VAC
120 cfm fan that is inline with a heavy duty 2 inch inside diameter flexible
PVC acid proof flex hose that has 1/4 inch thick walls. The fan and fan
blades are all plastic and the electrical fan wires are seal in totally
enclose compartments at the fan connections.
I now have been running 33 years with out a fan ventilating the battery
enclosure while the EV is moving. There is a 2 inch pvc pipe that goes
below the EV and is elbow forward with a screen and 3M filter material in
it. The forward movement of the EV brings in air into the battery enclosure
and exits out the other side.
This fan is used only when I charge the batteries. I install the battery
box ventilation control system, just like we do in gas fire boiler systems.
First, I must turn on the fan switch which the fan must run first to clear
any battery venting that may be present. A pressure/vacuum switch detects
the movement of air present and it will then turn on a 2-pole DC contactor
that then connects the output leads of the battery charger to the battery.
The pressure/vacuum switches are super sensitive and you can get them from a
heating and plumbing supplier.
When the fan is up and running and the flow of air is present, a fan
indicator lite will come on, a flow air lite comes on. I then turn on the
charger contactor which also gives me a indication, that I am connected.
I then look at the on board charger panel meters which is a AC volt, AC amp,
DC volt and DC amp. The AC volt meter will indicated that my AC main plug
is contacted and the DC volt meter indicates that I have main battery power
present up to the battery charger output contactor.
Before I turn on my charge, I make sure that the charger circuit breaker is
off and the current knob is at 0 amps. I then turn on the breaker, and
while watching the AC and DC ampere, I turn the current up while watching
the indicators meters.
At any time the battery box exhaust fan fails, the fan pressure/vacuum
switch then turns off the DC contactor which removes the charger circuit
from the batteries. A larger second fan maintains a positive air pressure
in a separate totally enclose charger compartment.
The battery box exhaust exits out the bottom of the EV like a exhaust pipe
does. If I park in the garage with the garage door down, I run out a exhaust
hose either under the garage door or use a garage door port, like you see in
gas stations.
My garage maintains a 70 degree temperature a year, so when I am charging
the batteries, the fans pull this 70 degree garage air through a 3-M filter
which I cut out of a large 2 inch thick 3M filter material and insert it
into the air input side of the battery box ventilation system.
You must be care full not to cross feed the battery box exhaust system with
the air input. At one time, I did not have this fan exhaust system install
this way. Could always detect a battery vent order. I went into the garage
where I was charging the batteries and when I turn off the charger, this
ignited some hydrogen in the charger compartment and blew the charger
bridge.
Roland
Wednesday, October 15, 2008
fuse possibilities
from RS - either 250A or 325A - 250A should be good good to 325A for a minute
http://australia.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=2260894
http://australia.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=2260894
vacuum switch
EV parts are giving unresonable shipping costs - time to have a look at local vacuum switches
from AEVA
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=516&KW=vacuum&PID=4210#4210
Finally have the details about Hobbs Vacuum Pump vacuum switch.
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/uploads/437/Vacuum-_Hobbs.jpg
Flexible Drive Agencies, Queensland number 07 32742013
Melb. Hobbs Mgr. Darren Atkins Ph:0393819202
Proximate cost incl. GST and postage aprox $60 au
from AEVA
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=516&KW=vacuum&PID=4210#4210
Finally have the details about Hobbs Vacuum Pump vacuum switch.
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/uploads/437/Vacuum-_Hobbs.jpg
Flexible Drive Agencies, Queensland number 07 32742013
Melb. Hobbs Mgr. Darren Atkins Ph:0393819202
Proximate cost incl. GST and postage aprox $60 au
other power steering possibilities
From aeva forum
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=395
Power steering is dead easy to keep - just strap this onto any hydraulic OE system;
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Vauxhall-Astra-Power-Steering-Pump_W0QQitemZ160261719630QQihZ006QQcategoryZ10404QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em122
Pick one up locally at any Holden wrecker
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=395
Power steering is dead easy to keep - just strap this onto any hydraulic OE system;
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Vauxhall-Astra-Power-Steering-Pump_W0QQitemZ160261719630QQihZ006QQcategoryZ10404QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em122
Pick one up locally at any Holden wrecker
fuse possibilities
http://au.farnell.com/1354651/electrical-circuit-protection/product.us0?sku=littelfuse-157-5700-6251
meant for a forklift - rated to 80V - should be fine for mine but not so sure about mira.
Expensive fuse holder but I think that I can make my own fuse holder.
meant for a forklift - rated to 80V - should be fine for mine but not so sure about mira.
Expensive fuse holder but I think that I can make my own fuse holder.
Battery sizes
I have realised that I may need to make the battery boxes before I buy the batteries. I have checked the size of the three 150Ahr batteries that may be a possibility.
Full river
171(W) x 484(L) x 241(H)
Absorbed Power
172(W) x 485(L) x 240(H)
First Start
170(W) x 485(L) x 241(H)
seems that I can build the boxes based on the max
172(W) x 485(L) x 241(H)
Full river
171(W) x 484(L) x 241(H)
Absorbed Power
172(W) x 485(L) x 240(H)
First Start
170(W) x 485(L) x 241(H)
seems that I can build the boxes based on the max
172(W) x 485(L) x 241(H)
Sunday, October 12, 2008
Thursday, October 9, 2008
Wednesday, October 8, 2008
springs
Seems like it is worth considering putting all the batteries in the back and beefing up the rear suspension
these guys may be worth a look to make the stiffer springs
http://www.industrialsprings.com.au/
these guys may be worth a look to make the stiffer springs
http://www.industrialsprings.com.au/
Sunday, September 28, 2008
demister alternatives
http://www.gbdriver.co.uk/acatalog/12v-car-heater-windscreen-demister.html
or similar
http://shop.justkampers.com/product_info.php/products_id/11179
this looks a little more serious
http://www.force4.co.uk/ProductDetails/mcs/productID/1946
or from a boat
http://www.marinescene.co.uk/view/4674/caframo-ceramic-demister
or similar
http://shop.justkampers.com/product_info.php/products_id/11179
this looks a little more serious
http://www.force4.co.uk/ProductDetails/mcs/productID/1946
or from a boat
http://www.marinescene.co.uk/view/4674/caframo-ceramic-demister
instrumentation display
if I am going to have an instrumentation display - something like this looks pretty nice
http://www.futurlec.com/LED/BLUE128X64LCD.shtml
unless it is easier to use a LED array but that seems like hard work making the PCB
might be worth having a look at microchips offerings for LCD control
http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=2091¶m=en506140
http://www.futurlec.com/LED/BLUE128X64LCD.shtml
unless it is easier to use a LED array but that seems like hard work making the PCB
might be worth having a look at microchips offerings for LCD control
http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=2091¶m=en506140
Saturday, September 27, 2008
power steering ev info
this is an excellent site - worth a look for more than just power steering
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_PowerSteering.html
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_PowerSteering.html
another battery monitoring solution
http://genki.home.ionet.net/BattMon/BattMonArticle.html
it has a particularly nice display - something I would like to have.
it has a particularly nice display - something I would like to have.
isolated voltage measurement
answer seems to be to measure using a chip with a one wire protocol and then isolate that digital signal
this is possibly the answer
http://datasheets.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/DS2436.pdf
and here is a document as to how to implement it
http://www.drgw.net/workshop/solarcar/solarcar.html
individual links
http://www.drgw.net/workshop/solarcar/documents/components/battmon-desc.pdf
and most useful - the schematics
http://www.drgw.net/workshop/solarcar/documents/components/battmon-schem.pdf
and a description of the packets
http://www.drgw.net/workshop/solarcar/documents/components/battmon-pkt.pdf
this is possibly the answer
http://datasheets.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/DS2436.pdf
and here is a document as to how to implement it
http://www.drgw.net/workshop/solarcar/solarcar.html
individual links
http://www.drgw.net/workshop/solarcar/documents/components/battmon-desc.pdf
and most useful - the schematics
http://www.drgw.net/workshop/solarcar/documents/components/battmon-schem.pdf
and a description of the packets
http://www.drgw.net/workshop/solarcar/documents/components/battmon-pkt.pdf
engine cooling
Should I use electric fans to give equal cooling at all engine revs - as done by acmotor on the red suzi?
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=615
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=615
Friday, September 26, 2008
Battery calc post
to get ready for my post about batteries.
range calcs
http://www.zeva.com.au/publications/Small_Hatchbacks.pdf
range calcs
http://www.zeva.com.au/publications/Small_Hatchbacks.pdf
Thursday, September 25, 2008
GVMs
Mazda australia tells me there is no GVM for the 121. I think that a good plan may be to check what other similar cars are
Car/year/curb weight/GVM
corolla/2004/1050/1630
current/Proton Satria/1159 /1552
current/Getz/1074/1530
current/swift/980/1470
yaris/current/1025-1045/1455
Citoen c3/1132/1525
echo/current/975-990/1400
http://www.carsales.com.au/car_sales/new_toyota_20030218_11_40_44.htm
swift/1994/765/1250
http://www.carsales.com.au/pls/carsales/!racv_content_new.research_specs?vehicle_code=19940531.09:14:39¤t_rec=25&make_name=SUZUKI&model_name=SWIFT
swift/2008/1007/1470
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/cars/new/ID_SUZSWT--E715GZ8/ists_click/src_news/vehicle.html
Car/year/curb weight/GVM
corolla/2004/1050/1630
current/Proton Satria/1159 /1552
current/Getz/1074/1530
current/swift/980/1470
yaris/current/1025-1045/1455
Citoen c3/1132/1525
echo/current/975-990/1400
http://www.carsales.com.au/car_sales/new_toyota_20030218_11_40_44.htm
swift/1994/765/1250
http://www.carsales.com.au/pls/carsales/!racv_content_new.research_specs?vehicle_code=19940531.09:14:39¤t_rec=25&make_name=SUZUKI&model_name=SWIFT
swift/2008/1007/1470
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/cars/new/ID_SUZSWT--E715GZ8/ists_click/src_news/vehicle.html
Tuesday, September 23, 2008
Trojan t105 batteries - why not?
Cheaper - more range - more hassle - why not?
http://www.batteriesplus.com.au/pd/582/239/trojan-t105/
or 12V version
http://www.batteriesplus.com.au/pd/584/239/trojan-scs225/
http://www.batteriesplus.com.au/pd/582/239/trojan-t105/
or 12V version
http://www.batteriesplus.com.au/pd/584/239/trojan-scs225/
flooded vs AGM
this is a big one to think about
http://www.evworld.com/blogs/index.cfm?page=blogentry&authorid=19&blogid=253
http://www.evworld.com/blogs/index.cfm?page=blogentry&authorid=19&blogid=253
Thursday, September 18, 2008
Concorde Batteries
seem to have a good reputation in the us - $530 for 100Ahr
http://www.solaronline.com.au/cgi/index.cgi/shopfront/view_product_details?category_id=1107143916&product_id=1107358634
http://www.solaronline.com.au/cgi/index.cgi/shopfront/view_product_details?category_id=1107143916&product_id=1107358634
Battery monitoring/ balancing decisions
Time to make some decisions - there is too much info out there to digest it all!
I think that this paragraph was a bit of a revalation for me and cleared up what I had been starting to think
You want to watch the voltage under driving load, and not let them fall
below 10.5v per module (~136v for your pack of 13). Better would be to
monitor each individual module, and stop when any one of them falls below
10.5v.
To start with, if I am using 6 chargers, then I can just monitor each of the batteries (or sets of two batteries in parallel) and ensure that none goes below 10.5V.
If I do start to get problems, then I can consider some form of battery balancing then.
As for the parallel situation, I think that it would be good if I can avoid it but that may not be possible.
options for monitoring battereis seem to be the paktrakr or the dallas one wire chip
I think that this paragraph was a bit of a revalation for me and cleared up what I had been starting to think
You want to watch the voltage under driving load, and not let them fall
below 10.5v per module (~136v for your pack of 13). Better would be to
monitor each individual module, and stop when any one of them falls below
10.5v.
To start with, if I am using 6 chargers, then I can just monitor each of the batteries (or sets of two batteries in parallel) and ensure that none goes below 10.5V.
If I do start to get problems, then I can consider some form of battery balancing then.
As for the parallel situation, I think that it would be good if I can avoid it but that may not be possible.
options for monitoring battereis seem to be the paktrakr or the dallas one wire chip
battery selection
from EVDL
http://www.nabble.com/Now-I%27m-really-spooked-about-batteries-to12534767ef25542.html#a12535553
It is best to select you batteries your self from a dealer. They normally
get in 50 batteries to a pellet, so I select the best 30 that was all
balance in with of a voltage of 0.001 volt of each other. If you see any
dark positive posts, do not select that one, because this is a sign of a
post seal leak.
I like a battery where the tops have a built in sluts for a carrying handle
and also the top is about 1/4 wider the body of the battery. This allows
for air ventilation around the batteries while the tops may be tight
together. I also space the perimeter of the battery pack from the battery
box for air inlet and exhaust.
http://www.nabble.com/Now-I%27m-really-spooked-about-batteries-to12534767ef25542.html#a12535553
It is best to select you batteries your self from a dealer. They normally
get in 50 batteries to a pellet, so I select the best 30 that was all
balance in with of a voltage of 0.001 volt of each other. If you see any
dark positive posts, do not select that one, because this is a sign of a
post seal leak.
I like a battery where the tops have a built in sluts for a carrying handle
and also the top is about 1/4 wider the body of the battery. This allows
for air ventilation around the batteries while the tops may be tight
together. I also space the perimeter of the battery pack from the battery
box for air inlet and exhaust.
Evision
this would be worth getting some ideas from - info on victor's evision is somewhere in this post
http://www.mail-archive.com/ev@listproc.sjsu.edu/msg07997.html
http://www.mail-archive.com/ev@listproc.sjsu.edu/msg07997.html
other batteries to consider
as suggested on EVDL
http://www.nabble.com/Now-I%27m-really-spooked-about-batteries-to12534767ef25542.html#a12535553
Orbitals
Hawkers
Concordes.
Deka
http://www.nabble.com/Now-I%27m-really-spooked-about-batteries-to12534767ef25542.html#a12535553
Orbitals
Hawkers
Concordes.
Deka
multiple ADC and serial databus
this should be the goal
here is one persons take - I think that they should use the dallas one wire chip.
http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-to19194075|a19194075
here is one persons take - I think that they should use the dallas one wire chip.
http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-to19194075|a19194075
Zener Regulators for battery balancing
here is a post on the topic
http://www.nabble.com/Zener-Regulators-to15268525ef25542.html#a15273145
not sure i understand how well this will work - here is a doc on dodgy brothers
http://home.gci.net/~saintbernard/Zener_Regs.pdf
http://www.nabble.com/Zener-Regulators-to15268525ef25542.html#a15273145
not sure i understand how well this will work - here is a doc on dodgy brothers
http://home.gci.net/~saintbernard/Zener_Regs.pdf
PowerCheq
these seem to be worth looking into - not quite sure what they do
http://www.evdeals.com/PowerCheq.htm
http://www.evdeals.com/PowerCheq.htm
Rudman Regulator
seems only relevant for charging - I should be able to avoid by using 6 12V chargers
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/mk3reg.htm
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/mk3reg.htm
Wednesday, September 17, 2008
Delcor batteries
I should look into these - $230 for 80Ahr
http://www.batteriesplus.com.au/pd/554/239/delkor-dc27/
$260 for 100Ahr
http://www.batteriesplus.com.au/pd/1145/239/delkor-dc31-deep-cycle-battery/
http://www.batteriesplus.com.au/pd/554/239/delkor-dc27/
$260 for 100Ahr
http://www.batteriesplus.com.au/pd/1145/239/delkor-dc31-deep-cycle-battery/
Fullriver batteries
I need to copy the stuff from lower down to just have one battery type per post
fullriver 120ahr for $445
http://www.dynamicsolarsolutions.com.au/catalogue/batteriespg3.html
150ahr for $560
http://www.energymatters.com.au/fullriver-sealed-lead-acid-agm-battery-12volt-150ah-dc-p-135.html
150ahr for $298 - auction closed
http://www.secondhandsolar.com/product_desc.php?id=191
fullriver 120ahr for $445
http://www.dynamicsolarsolutions.com.au/catalogue/batteriespg3.html
150ahr for $560
http://www.energymatters.com.au/fullriver-sealed-lead-acid-agm-battery-12volt-150ah-dc-p-135.html
150ahr for $298 - auction closed
http://www.secondhandsolar.com/product_desc.php?id=191
Powersonic batteries
here is the spec sheet
http://www.power-sonic.com.au/pds/20080121-AU_DCG12100.pdf
discussed on evdl
http://www.nabble.com/PowerSonic-AGM-batteries%2C-any-thoughts-to17745425ef25542.html#a17745425
used by the ute in this conversion
http://www.thebackshed.com/Windmill/FORUM1/forum_posts.asp?TID=384&PN=1
$385 australian
http://www.dynamicsolarsolutions.com.au/catalogue/batteriespg3.html
http://www.power-sonic.com.au/pds/20080121-AU_DCG12100.pdf
discussed on evdl
http://www.nabble.com/PowerSonic-AGM-batteries%2C-any-thoughts-to17745425ef25542.html#a17745425
used by the ute in this conversion
http://www.thebackshed.com/Windmill/FORUM1/forum_posts.asp?TID=384&PN=1
$385 australian
http://www.dynamicsolarsolutions.com.au/catalogue/batteriespg3.html
Paralleleing batteries
I need to sort out if this is a good idea
from this post
http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
Please consider going with one string. Paralleling causes problems all
around. Your battery life would greatly increase. At least have a
contactor bank so that you can use only one string at a time. Each
string should be charged independently and have it's own SOC meter,
too.
Here is another EVDL post about paralleling batteries
seems that discharging is okay but charging may cause problems
http://www.nabble.com/Paralleling-batteries-in-high-current-environments-td18160663ef25542.html#a18167307
from this post
http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
Please consider going with one string. Paralleling causes problems all
around. Your battery life would greatly increase. At least have a
contactor bank so that you can use only one string at a time. Each
string should be charged independently and have it's own SOC meter,
too.
Here is another EVDL post about paralleling batteries
seems that discharging is okay but charging may cause problems
http://www.nabble.com/Paralleling-batteries-in-high-current-environments-td18160663ef25542.html#a18167307
Battery management
Here is a specific forum - really releated to lithium but may be useful in the future - I have joined the forum
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVBMS/
more relevant to SLA
http://www.nabble.com/AGM-batteries-and-a-charger-question-to16366509ef25542.html#a16366509
I don't know if you want to say "need" a BMS, but folks who use a BMS with
their AGMs typically get about twice the lifespan out of them.
You can try searching the archives for "Battery Balancer". That's what
they called the most common type of BMS used with Lead-Acid batteries.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVBMS/
more relevant to SLA
http://www.nabble.com/AGM-batteries-and-a-charger-question-to16366509ef25542.html#a16366509
I don't know if you want to say "need" a BMS, but folks who use a BMS with
their AGMs typically get about twice the lifespan out of them.
You can try searching the archives for "Battery Balancer". That's what
they called the most common type of BMS used with Lead-Acid batteries.
sla battery summaries
this is a good summary of battery and charging issues
http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-p18749428
here is a good selection summary
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_BatterySelection.html
http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-p18749428
here is a good selection summary
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_BatterySelection.html
Tuesday, September 16, 2008
Genesis batteries
Byron said genesis batteries were the only way to go
they are A$260 for 65Ahr here
http://www.planetarypower.com.au/solar_batteries.htm#genesis
or $320 for 65Arh here
http://www.batterydoctor.com.au/store/view_product.php?product=NP65-12
or $230 for 55Ahr here
http://www.batterydoctor.com.au/store/view_product.php?product=NP55-12
this is the info on the big brother to what we have in the mira
http://www.master-instruments.com.au/products/55454/G12V70AH10EP.html
they are A$260 for 65Ahr here
http://www.planetarypower.com.au/solar_batteries.htm#genesis
or $320 for 65Arh here
http://www.batterydoctor.com.au/store/view_product.php?product=NP65-12
or $230 for 55Ahr here
http://www.batterydoctor.com.au/store/view_product.php?product=NP55-12
this is the info on the big brother to what we have in the mira
http://www.master-instruments.com.au/products/55454/G12V70AH10EP.html
Henda SLAs
AC motor from AEVA is using Henda batteries
here is a source of a 120Ahr - $400each for more than 4 -
http://www.altronics.com.au/index.asp?area=item&id=S5130
or the 65ahr version - $195 for more than 5
http://www.altronics.com.au/index.asp?area=item&id=S5114
best check who is using these on evalbum
henda and toyo seem to be the same mob - here is the spec sheet for the 120Ahr version
http://www.hendatoyo.com.cn/product/UploadFiles/200481611162591.pdf
here is a source of a 120Ahr - $400each for more than 4 -
http://www.altronics.com.au/index.asp?area=item&id=S5130
or the 65ahr version - $195 for more than 5
http://www.altronics.com.au/index.asp?area=item&id=S5114
best check who is using these on evalbum
henda and toyo seem to be the same mob - here is the spec sheet for the 120Ahr version
http://www.hendatoyo.com.cn/product/UploadFiles/200481611162591.pdf
Contactors
I cannot find any 24V contactors reasonably priced
Allbright SW180/200 24V or equivalent (LEV200)
http://www.evsource.com/datasheets/tyco/LEV200_ds_9-1773439-1.pdf
here is a supplier in australia - no prices though!
http://www.bridex.com.au/albright_product_range_3.htm
Beebs is the same mob as electricvehicleusa
this needs considering - $35usd
http://www.beepscom.com/product_p/ct-sw180-rcf.htm
$140 usd
http://www.beepscom.com/product_p/ct-sw200-390.htm
$130usd
http://www.beepscom.com/product_p/ct-zljm-400-24.htm
$100usd
http://www.beepscom.com/product_p/ct-zljm-200-24.htm
Allbright SW180/200 24V or equivalent (LEV200)
http://www.evsource.com/datasheets/tyco/LEV200_ds_9-1773439-1.pdf
here is a supplier in australia - no prices though!
http://www.bridex.com.au/albright_product_range_3.htm
Beebs is the same mob as electricvehicleusa
this needs considering - $35usd
http://www.beepscom.com/product_p/ct-sw180-rcf.htm
$140 usd
http://www.beepscom.com/product_p/ct-sw200-390.htm
$130usd
http://www.beepscom.com/product_p/ct-zljm-400-24.htm
$100usd
http://www.beepscom.com/product_p/ct-zljm-200-24.htm
Electric vehicle usa
http://www.electricvehiclesusa.com/aboutus.asp
they have the contactors I need but quote $60 us shipping!
they have the contactors I need but quote $60 us shipping!
other battery sources
on ebay - same as other supplier of fullriver
http://stores.ebay.com.au/ALL-PURPOSE-BATTERIES-ONLINE_W0QQcolZ2QQdirZQ2d1QQfsubZQ2d33QQftidZ2QQtZkm
http://stores.ebay.com.au/ALL-PURPOSE-BATTERIES-ONLINE_W0QQcolZ2QQdirZQ2d1QQfsubZQ2d33QQftidZ2QQtZkm
battery monitoring
I should have individual battery monitoring
this looks okay but a but bulky. I would like a 1 wire protocol or something similar
http://www.evconvert.com/article/led-bargraph-battery-monitor
from one of the comments on that page
If your in Astralia DSE have a this in kit form for about AU$9 each.
http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/482e8bd1040477a8273fc0a87f9c06f3/Product/View/K4611
or check out the PakTrakr - whatever that is
http://www.paktrakr.com/Shopping.html
or a circuit based on the MAX8211
http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/1273
or how about this?
http://www.futurlec.com/CarBatteryMonitor.shtml
or this
http://www.electronics-lab.com/projects/automotive/009/index.html
or this
http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/circ/batmon12.htm
this looks okay but a but bulky. I would like a 1 wire protocol or something similar
http://www.evconvert.com/article/led-bargraph-battery-monitor
from one of the comments on that page
Another option I’ve been mulling over is an Arduino-based battery monitor. I’m not really a hardware guy, and barely a programmer, but from what I’ve read of this open source platform, it shouldn’t be horribly difficult to build a 6-battery monitor (the board has 6 analog inputs) that can send live data to a laptop: arduino.cc
I may just look into this as a winter project. The pre-assembled board is about $30 US.
or another comment from that articleIf your in Astralia DSE have a this in kit form for about AU$9 each.
http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/482e8bd1040477a8273fc0a87f9c06f3/Product/View/K4611
or check out the PakTrakr - whatever that is
http://www.paktrakr.com/Shopping.html
or a circuit based on the MAX8211
http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/1273
or how about this?
http://www.futurlec.com/CarBatteryMonitor.shtml
or this
http://www.electronics-lab.com/projects/automotive/009/index.html
or this
http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/circ/batmon12.htm
Enclosures
This is a great source of enclosures
https://www.soanarplus.com/getProductWebDetails.do?prodId=HB6132
https://www.soanarplus.com/getProductWebDetails.do?prodId=HB6132
multiple battery chargers
As it looks like the zivan NG1 may be getting closer to US$600 - A$720, I think that I should consider using multiple battery chargers as explained in
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=339
Here are 12V 12A chargers for $53 - 6 of them is about half the cost with more power.
https://www.soanarplus.com/getProductWebDetails.do?prodId=MB3612
or 16A for $92
https://www.soanarplus.com/getProductWebDetails.do?prodId=MB3620
or 3 x 24V at 6A - maybe not quite enough current
https://www.soanarplus.com/getProductWebDetails.do?prodId=MB3614
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=339
Here are 12V 12A chargers for $53 - 6 of them is about half the cost with more power.
https://www.soanarplus.com/getProductWebDetails.do?prodId=MB3612
or 16A for $92
https://www.soanarplus.com/getProductWebDetails.do?prodId=MB3620
or 3 x 24V at 6A - maybe not quite enough current
https://www.soanarplus.com/getProductWebDetails.do?prodId=MB3614
Monday, September 15, 2008
datalogging
This looks like a nice way to log data
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8627
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8627
Sunday, September 14, 2008
Battery testing
This mob in the link are making a ev battery tester - we should too!
http://www.arbin.co.kr/Download/products/EVTS.pdf
this is a little more what I was thinking
http://a4x4kiwi.blogspot.com/2008/06/long-awaited-20ah-greensaver-test.html
http://www.arbin.co.kr/Download/products/EVTS.pdf
this is a little more what I was thinking
http://a4x4kiwi.blogspot.com/2008/06/long-awaited-20ah-greensaver-test.html
battery calcuations
2kwhr/100km for every L/100km the car used
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=584
For the bubble at about 8L/100km, that would be 160whr/km - close to the 150whr that I have been using.
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=584
For the bubble at about 8L/100km, that would be 160whr/km - close to the 150whr that I have been using.
Saturday, September 13, 2008
clutch adaptor
committed to using the clutch!
here is some info on how the adaptor should be done
http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/adaptors.shtml
here is some info on how the adaptor should be done
http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/adaptors.shtml
Thursday, September 11, 2008
extra stuff to the contactor
I should think about this
http://www.zeva.com.au/tech/contactor_jewelry/
but I may not need to as the sevcon controller controls the contactor
http://www.zeva.com.au/tech/contactor_jewelry/
but I may not need to as the sevcon controller controls the contactor
Monday, September 8, 2008
bubble gearboxes
Not sure if I will need this in the future but it may explain something if I need to
from
http://www.ozmazdaclub.com/forum/mazda-2-121-technical-performance/461-121-bubble-gearboxs.html
Thank you for your enquiry. Upon discussions with our Technical advisor, he advised that both the B5 and B3 engines in a DB 121 have a B5M-R transmission.
The available service information suggests that the difference between the B5 and B3 gearboxes are the gear ratios and the final drive ratio.
In consideration of this, our recommendation is that you source a replacement gearbox which suits the B5 (1.5L engine).
Regards
National Customer Service
from
http://www.ozmazdaclub.com/forum/mazda-2-121-technical-performance/461-121-bubble-gearboxs.html
Thank you for your enquiry. Upon discussions with our Technical advisor, he advised that both the B5 and B3 engines in a DB 121 have a B5M-R transmission.
The available service information suggests that the difference between the B5 and B3 gearboxes are the gear ratios and the final drive ratio.
In consideration of this, our recommendation is that you source a replacement gearbox which suits the B5 (1.5L engine).
Regards
National Customer Service
Sunday, September 7, 2008
battery boxes
I need to sort out the battery box - from aeva
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=520
Agm batteries are OK to have mounted in the car cabin since VW has acid battery and its ok. Cutting a floor in a monocoque frame is possible so long as the main frame is not damaged or removed or welded to. Best place to have batteries inside a 2 door barina is to place the batteries where the back seat is Make a Angle iron frame rubberised, seal it with plates and build a firewall over the top( you can then decorate the frewall with a matching seat matrial without the rubber and glue on also use the back rests to separate the sparewheel and loading area-
use exhaust plastic pipes from the battery box to ventilate One inlet and one outlet. that should satisfy most fastidious inspector.
The back seat area is the most acceptable position for batteries the vehicle will be perfectly ballanced and batteries are in where the passegers used to sit. One has to sacrifice the seat-- besides EV is not a TAXI. In reply to previous comment-- use rubber gloves and insulated tools when working with batteries and connections 120 volt will not kill you but its no pleasent to get a hit.
Just reread this and realized the author - grain of salt
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=520
Agm batteries are OK to have mounted in the car cabin since VW has acid battery and its ok. Cutting a floor in a monocoque frame is possible so long as the main frame is not damaged or removed or welded to. Best place to have batteries inside a 2 door barina is to place the batteries where the back seat is Make a Angle iron frame rubberised, seal it with plates and build a firewall over the top( you can then decorate the frewall with a matching seat matrial without the rubber and glue on also use the back rests to separate the sparewheel and loading area-
use exhaust plastic pipes from the battery box to ventilate One inlet and one outlet. that should satisfy most fastidious inspector.
The back seat area is the most acceptable position for batteries the vehicle will be perfectly ballanced and batteries are in where the passegers used to sit. One has to sacrifice the seat-- besides EV is not a TAXI. In reply to previous comment-- use rubber gloves and insulated tools when working with batteries and connections 120 volt will not kill you but its no pleasent to get a hit.
Just reread this and realized the author - grain of salt
Brakes
Have the vacuum pump - need the vacuum switch
will this do?
http://www.evparts.com/prod-BK2785.htm
Will probably do but cost US$40 for shipping - item is only worth $US23
or from
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=516&KW=vacuum&PID=4210#4210
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/uploads/437/Vacuum-_Hobbs.jpg
Flexible Drive Agencies, Queensland number 07 32742013
Melb. Hobbs Mgr. Darren Atkins Ph:0393819202
Proximate cost incl. GST and postage aprox $60 au
more info:
http://content.honeywell.com/sensing/hss/hobbscorp/catswitch.asp
from this discussion
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=516
Sounds like I may have bought a noisy vacuum pump.
may have to fix it like kiwiev
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=458
other source of cutoff switch
http://www.coastpneumatics.com/products/vacuum/vacuumswitches/f4200x.php
will this do?
http://www.evparts.com/prod-BK2785.htm
Will probably do but cost US$40 for shipping - item is only worth $US23
or from
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=516&KW=vacuum&PID=4210#4210
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/uploads/437/Vacuum-_Hobbs.jpg
Flexible Drive Agencies, Queensland number 07 32742013
Melb. Hobbs Mgr. Darren Atkins Ph:0393819202
Proximate cost incl. GST and postage aprox $60 au
more info:
http://content.honeywell.com/sensing/hss/hobbscorp/catswitch.asp
from this discussion
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=516
Sounds like I may have bought a noisy vacuum pump.
may have to fix it like kiwiev
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=458
other source of cutoff switch
http://www.coastpneumatics.com/products/vacuum/vacuumswitches/f4200x.php
Saturday, September 6, 2008
aux battery - no dc dc converter required
seems to make more sense to me to get a bigger aux battery and not have a dc dc converter
then I will need a 12v battery charger - mabye like this?
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=MB3610&CATID=&keywords=MB3610&SPECIAL=&form=KEYWORD&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=
or maybe there are much cheaper examples
then I can run the power to connect both the 72V and 12V charger from 12V relay
then I will need a 12v battery charger - mabye like this?
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=MB3610&CATID=&keywords=MB3610&SPECIAL=&form=KEYWORD&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=
or maybe there are much cheaper examples
then I can run the power to connect both the 72V and 12V charger from 12V relay
heater for rego
for rego - need a heater for demisting - will this do? 300W ceramic heater from ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Car-Heater-12v-for-Camptrail-caravan-Boat-300-WATTS_W0QQitemZ380061590650QQihZ025QQcategoryZ33542QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
aeva forum discussion
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=528
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Car-Heater-12v-for-Camptrail-caravan-Boat-300-WATTS_W0QQitemZ380061590650QQihZ025QQcategoryZ33542QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
aeva forum discussion
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=528
Mazda 121 info
looking for info about GVM
this may be help in the future
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autozam_Revue
or this one
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/F5240B23F46A36ADCA256D49001DB7DC
I think that this is the same
http://www.mynrma.com.au/cps/rde/xchg/mynrma/hs.xsl/Mazda_121_1991_car_review.htm
this may be help in the future
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autozam_Revue
or this one
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/F5240B23F46A36ADCA256D49001DB7DC
I think that this is the same
http://www.mynrma.com.au/cps/rde/xchg/mynrma/hs.xsl/Mazda_121_1991_car_review.htm
Wednesday, September 3, 2008
Fuses/ circuit breakers/ emergency cutoffs
I need an emergency cutoff and a circuit braker/ fuse.
Maybe this would do the job for both?
https://www.zeva.com.au/store.php?product=39
or a more obvious one for just the emergency cutoff
https://www.zeva.com.au/store.php?product=38
I had not thought of a mechanical remote for the circuit breaker
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=99
The best/safest way is to use a circuit breaker (e.g shameless advertisement http://zeva.com.au/store.php?product=39), and rig up a pushrod/cable allowing you to trip the lever manually by remote. The advantage here is that you also get the safety of a circuit breaker on your power line!
I have been thinking about using a cable to the circuit breaker - looks like that has already been done which is good
http://www.kiwiev.com/control%20panel%20-%20control%20box%20wired%20up%20and%20ready%20for%20the%20main%20cable.jpg
Maybe this would do the job for both?
https://www.zeva.com.au/store.php?product=39
or a more obvious one for just the emergency cutoff
https://www.zeva.com.au/store.php?product=38
I had not thought of a mechanical remote for the circuit breaker
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=99
The best/safest way is to use a circuit breaker (e.g shameless advertisement http://zeva.com.au/store.php?product=39), and rig up a pushrod/cable allowing you to trip the lever manually by remote. The advantage here is that you also get the safety of a circuit breaker on your power line!
I have been thinking about using a cable to the circuit breaker - looks like that has already been done which is good
http://www.kiwiev.com/control%20panel%20-%20control%20box%20wired%20up%20and%20ready%20for%20the%20main%20cable.jpg
Which gear is the best
Been doing a lot of thinking about this.
I like this comment from
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=506
If you retain the gearbox, just put it in the gear that requires the least battery side A to do the job (ie watch the A guage) :)
Sounds like a great idea, that should take into account the efficiency map.
I like this comment from
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=506
If you retain the gearbox, just put it in the gear that requires the least battery side A to do the job (ie watch the A guage) :)
Sounds like a great idea, that should take into account the efficiency map.
Monday, September 1, 2008
Charge interlock
seems a good idea for a number of reasons, not least that the controller may be damaged
this may be a nice option?
http://jonglauser.blogspot.com/2008/05/modification-charge-interlock.html
good discussion here - wiki may be relevant for other stuff as well
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_conversion_chapter:_control_and_interlocks
This photo seems to show the electric echo "interlock" on the fuel filler door
http://www.electric-echo.com/images/DiaryImages/PowerCordBig.JPG
I dont believe that is fully mechanical - looks like it goes into the control of the contactor
I should be able to use a relay such as this one to only connect the charger when it is on:
from -
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=528
Found this relay just now at Futurelec
SSRDC200V40A SPST 0-200Vdc 40A DC Solid State Relay
$24.95
LINK
Futurlec
2 / 136 Broadmeadow Rd,
Broadmeadow,
NSW 2292
Australia
Fax Number - Local: 02 94 75 4051
Actually - on second look, the input can only be to 36V - I should still use a relay such as this but will have to be driven from the 12V charger.
this may be a nice option?
http://jonglauser.blogspot.com/2008/05/modification-charge-interlock.html
good discussion here - wiki may be relevant for other stuff as well
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_conversion_chapter:_control_and_interlocks
This photo seems to show the electric echo "interlock" on the fuel filler door
http://www.electric-echo.com/images/DiaryImages/PowerCordBig.JPG
I dont believe that is fully mechanical - looks like it goes into the control of the contactor
I should be able to use a relay such as this one to only connect the charger when it is on:
from -
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=528
Found this relay just now at Futurelec
SSRDC200V40A SPST 0-200Vdc 40A DC Solid State Relay
$24.95
LINK
Futurlec
2 / 136 Broadmeadow Rd,
Broadmeadow,
NSW 2292
Australia
Fax Number - Local: 02 94 75 4051
Actually - on second look, the input can only be to 36V - I should still use a relay such as this but will have to be driven from the 12V charger.
Saturday, August 30, 2008
ac - the big challenge
What is the most efficient way of storing energy to cool the car?
with iced water?
http://www.swampy.net/iceuse.html#anchor107358
this suggests that vehicle ac is innefficient
http://www.glacierbay.com/Darphtm.asp
I think that direct drive may be the way to go with the AC setting defining the speed of the compressor motor.
maybe a motor like this?
http://www.cloudelectric.com/inc/sdetail/214
or if this is big enough -- controller is only $25
http://www.cloudelectric.com/inc/sdetail/215
I really need it at 72V though - initially I should probably try to run an accessory bel
with iced water?
http://www.swampy.net/iceuse.html#anchor107358
this suggests that vehicle ac is innefficient
http://www.glacierbay.com/Darphtm.asp
I think that direct drive may be the way to go with the AC setting defining the speed of the compressor motor.
maybe a motor like this?
http://www.cloudelectric.com/inc/sdetail/214
or if this is big enough -- controller is only $25
http://www.cloudelectric.com/inc/sdetail/215
I really need it at 72V though - initially I should probably try to run an accessory bel
heater for rego
I like this simplicity and avoidance of dash removal. These guys just heated the water going to the normal heater using two 12v jug elements.
http://www.thebackshed.com/Windmill/FORUM1/forum_posts.asp?TID=691&PN=1
http://www.thebackshed.com/Windmill/FORUM1/forum_posts.asp?TID=691&PN=1
Friday, August 29, 2008
budget
Here is the first budget - without vehicle, mechanical modifications or wiring
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=peowtTAbVTPB_mNVcKQ2xXA
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p
rego requriements
should think about this
There seems to be issues with mounting in the boot:
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=451
I do know of at least one conversion where the entire pack was located in the boot of a hatchback.
I think they got around the ncop14 requirement for no high voltage in the cabin by putting a false floor over the batteries. thus the pack space was no longer part of the cabin.
The electric echo bloke has a good bit on his application etc.
I like his plan of keeping all the batteries outside (some under back seat and some under bonnet)
here is the link to the ADRs
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/motor/design/adr_online.aspx
I need some emergency cutoffs - like these
https://www.zeva.com.au/store.php?product=38
There seems to be issues with mounting in the boot:
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=451
I do know of at least one conversion where the entire pack was located in the boot of a hatchback.
I think they got around the ncop14 requirement for no high voltage in the cabin by putting a false floor over the batteries. thus the pack space was no longer part of the cabin.
The electric echo bloke has a good bit on his application etc.
I like his plan of keeping all the batteries outside (some under back seat and some under bonnet)
here is the link to the ADRs
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/motor/design/adr_online.aspx
I need some emergency cutoffs - like these
https://www.zeva.com.au/store.php?product=38
regen with powerpak
seems a bit confusing -see notes on hardcopy
here is someones comments from
http://www.mail-archive.com/ev@listproc.sjsu.edu/msg07882.html
I am using the neutral braking option. It is easy to set up and gives good braking performance. I have it connected to the back footbrake pedal by microswitch.
Here is a comment on regen setup from aeva
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=59&PN=3
Correct, but there is more to it.
It is not a start / stop situation. The accelerator pedal is still providing the speed demand.
I have used ramps with speed control as one type of control mode and basically set the up ramp to a time as fast as the vehicle can accelerate and the down ramp to just on wheel lockup during slowdown. (also select the ramp shape)
After that it is up to the driver's foot. It is more like driving a diesel. The accelerator pedal selects a speed rather than a motor torque. It is different but actually quite driveable. You never use the brakes. The ramps only determine the response time of controller to pedal. The driver determines speed. If you completely remove your foot from acc then you get max (preset) regen anyway.
There are more variations on the theme like using the catchup-slowdown feature of the controller etc. Yes there are holes in the theory so be careful with experimentation.
Using process control is even better as the drive modifies the ramp if the preset torque limit of motor and regen are reached. Speaking for Danfoss here.
Could I set up this on the sevcon?
here is someones comments from
http://www.mail-archive.com/ev@listproc.sjsu.edu/msg07882.html
I am using the neutral braking option. It is easy to set up and gives good braking performance. I have it connected to the back footbrake pedal by microswitch.
Here is a comment on regen setup from aeva
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=59&PN=3
Correct, but there is more to it.
It is not a start / stop situation. The accelerator pedal is still providing the speed demand.
I have used ramps with speed control as one type of control mode and basically set the up ramp to a time as fast as the vehicle can accelerate and the down ramp to just on wheel lockup during slowdown. (also select the ramp shape)
After that it is up to the driver's foot. It is more like driving a diesel. The accelerator pedal selects a speed rather than a motor torque. It is different but actually quite driveable. You never use the brakes. The ramps only determine the response time of controller to pedal. The driver determines speed. If you completely remove your foot from acc then you get max (preset) regen anyway.
There are more variations on the theme like using the catchup-slowdown feature of the controller etc. Yes there are holes in the theory so be careful with experimentation.
Using process control is even better as the drive modifies the ramp if the preset torque limit of motor and regen are reached. Speaking for Danfoss here.
Could I set up this on the sevcon?
Wednesday, August 27, 2008
Sevcon powerpak controller
As it seems more possible that the alpha motors motor may become a reality, I am going to have to find a source of the sevcon powerpak controller.
I will also need the computer link and some sort of display.
Possible suppliers.
$625 from thunderstruck ev
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/controllers.htm
I also need the PCpaK which allows connection to a PC
http://www.alternativefuelsequipment.com/curtis/pdf/SevconPCpaK.pdf
however this guy on the forum mentions that the controller may not be smart enough to speak to the PCpaK.
http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-td18854905
australian supplier is
http://www.clevelandelectronicservices.com/
but the site has been hacked by a turkish hacker at the moment
This document is not completely relevant but it does explain some of the settings. This is for an etek and a micropak
http://www.teamdelta.com/products/prodimages/Config_Worksheet_v11.doc
I will also need the computer link and some sort of display.
Possible suppliers.
$625 from thunderstruck ev
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/controllers.htm
I also need the PCpaK which allows connection to a PC
http://www.alternativefuelsequipment.com/curtis/pdf/SevconPCpaK.pdf
however this guy on the forum mentions that the controller may not be smart enough to speak to the PCpaK.
http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-td18854905
australian supplier is
http://www.clevelandelectronicservices.com/
but the site has been hacked by a turkish hacker at the moment
This document is not completely relevant but it does explain some of the settings. This is for an etek and a micropak
http://www.teamdelta.com/products/prodimages/Config_Worksheet_v11.doc
Tuesday, August 26, 2008
What is the D&D sepex?
seems that the D&D sepex advertised by electric motor sport and thunderstruck ev is very similar to one listed as a series on on cloud ev. Maybe there is both a series and a sepex option
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/ddmotor.htm
listed as a ES-10E -33( sep-ex)
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_motors_sepex.php
Dia. 6.7"........Length 11"........Weight 56Lbs.........Shaft dia. 7/8" W/ 3/16 Keyway
http://www.cloudelectric.com/inc/sdetail/168
Current: 140
7/8" single-shaft
base/face-mounted
6.7" Dia x 11.53" Long
35 HP peak
Actual Weight 57 lbs
sepex
thunderstruck
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/ddmotor.htm
listed as a ES-10E -33( sep-ex)
| Size | 6.8" OD, 11" long (w/o shaft) | |
| Shaft | 7/8" x 2", 3/16" keyway | |
| Weight | 57 lbs. + (8lb DCX, 5lb Sev) cntrlr | |
electric motorsport
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_motors_sepex.php
Dia. 6.7"........Length 11"........Weight 56Lbs.........Shaft dia. 7/8" W/ 3/16 Keyway
Series
cloud electric
http://www.cloudelectric.com/inc/sdetail/168
Current: 140
7/8" single-shaft
base/face-mounted
6.7" Dia x 11.53" Long
35 HP peak
Actual Weight 57 lbs
companies for the peripherals
It seems that I keep coming back to the same companies when searching for the peripheral stuff.
http://www.cloudelectric.com/home
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts.php
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/products.htm
http://www.electricvehiclesusa.com/category_s/29.htm
contactors
https://www.zeva.com.au/store.php?category=3
http://www.cloudelectric.com/home
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts.php
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/products.htm
http://www.electricvehiclesusa.com/category_s/29.htm
contactors
https://www.zeva.com.au/store.php?category=3
gauges
If I use the sevcon controller, then the gauge with that is worth looking into
alternatives are:
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_drainbrain-cycle-analyst.php
but I am not sure of the current rating - positive and negative current stuff sounds nice!
this is used by a bloke on the ev album who got it from thunderstruck ev
http://www.evalbum.com/1672
or maybe a kit would do the job - as shown in the electric echo
http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_102045/article.html
alternatives are:
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_drainbrain-cycle-analyst.php
but I am not sure of the current rating - positive and negative current stuff sounds nice!
this is used by a bloke on the ev album who got it from thunderstruck ev
http://www.evalbum.com/1672
or maybe a kit would do the job - as shown in the electric echo
http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_102045/article.html
chargers
this looks like it may do either NG1 or NG3. NG1 may do to start with?
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/ZivanNG1.htm
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/ZivanNG1.htm
Alpha motors
The sepex from alpha motors on ebay still seems like the best option - if he ever gets back to me.
He says it is an advance motor originally. This seems like a relatively well known brand
http://www.manvillemotor.com/forklift_motors.htm
The other things I need to check
He says it is an advance motor originally. This seems like a relatively well known brand
http://www.manvillemotor.com/forklift_motors.htm
The other things I need to check
- Brush availability - can I buy spares now?
- What current is required on the field winding? Sevcon can only supply 50A
- Shipping cost
other motor possibilities
http://cn-dcmotors.en.alibaba.com/group/200091690/car_motor.html
all a bit random - maybe a local supplier? Probably not very proven and more risk the dodgy bothers ebay nmotor
all a bit random - maybe a local supplier? Probably not very proven and more risk the dodgy bothers ebay nmotor
multiple sepex
after thinking about the "scorpio viper" vibe of the sepex available on ebay, I have been giving some more thought to muliple smaller sepex (maybe coupled before the gearbox)
this link may be relevant
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/just-fun-4-motors-inline-17874.html
I think that I should have a look at the motorbikes using the thunderstruck package to learn about appropriate gearing.
this link may be relevant
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/just-fun-4-motors-inline-17874.html
I think that I should have a look at the motorbikes using the thunderstruck package to learn about appropriate gearing.
Monday, August 25, 2008
belt drives
If this alpha motors bloke does not get things together then I will have to reconsider the two motor option.
here is a possible link for a belt drive
http://www.gates.com/sync/index.cfm?drive=poly%20chain&location_id=742
here is someone who is sort of doing the same thing
http://www.evalbum.com/386
and a nice pic of an ideal situation
here is a possible link for a belt drive
http://www.gates.com/sync/index.cfm?drive=poly%20chain&location_id=742
here is someone who is sort of doing the same thing
http://www.evalbum.com/386
and a nice pic of an ideal situation
Saturday, August 23, 2008
clutchless
I mentioned earlier that I felt the best way to go would be clutchless.
If I can go sepex, I think that I would like to keep the vehicle in one gear. If I do that then I will be able to get rid of the clutch.
Quote from ev album:
http://www.evalbum.com/727
Made an adapter from 2" bar stock and the splined hub that was originally in the clutch disk. So the motor is attached directly through the adapter to the transaxle. Also added a pilot brass bushing in the center of the motor shaft to accomodate the tail end of the trans shaft.
Sounds like a good place to find the splined hub.
I think that I would prefer a flexible coupling between the motor and gearbox shafts.
these guys make adapters
http://canev.com/KitsComp/Components/S10AdpKit.html
I think that this shows that you can still use the clutch plate to get some flexibility in a clutchless system.
http://images.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.northrim.net/wyanders/ev/0108s.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.northrim.net/wyanders/ev/motorinstall.html&h=187&w=250&sz=10&hl=en&start=19&usg=__0V4LFlJr6w8boxVxI7TgR0nBCUQ=&tbnid=t4PiB7PpBgHhbM:&tbnh=83&tbnw=111&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dclutchless%2Bev%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG
This is a good video of clutchless
http://www.evforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=570
These guys use a clutch in their kits
http://www.electroauto.com/info/parts.shtml
here is a good discussion - seems a good idea to keep the clutch
http://groups.google.com/group/civic-ev-kit/browse_thread/thread/4e5acb932c92f43f
If I can go sepex, I think that I would like to keep the vehicle in one gear. If I do that then I will be able to get rid of the clutch.
Quote from ev album:
http://www.evalbum.com/727
Made an adapter from 2" bar stock and the splined hub that was originally in the clutch disk. So the motor is attached directly through the adapter to the transaxle. Also added a pilot brass bushing in the center of the motor shaft to accomodate the tail end of the trans shaft.
Sounds like a good place to find the splined hub.
I think that I would prefer a flexible coupling between the motor and gearbox shafts.
these guys make adapters
http://canev.com/KitsComp/Components/S10AdpKit.html
I think that this shows that you can still use the clutch plate to get some flexibility in a clutchless system.
http://images.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.northrim.net/wyanders/ev/0108s.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.northrim.net/wyanders/ev/motorinstall.html&h=187&w=250&sz=10&hl=en&start=19&usg=__0V4LFlJr6w8boxVxI7TgR0nBCUQ=&tbnid=t4PiB7PpBgHhbM:&tbnh=83&tbnw=111&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dclutchless%2Bev%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG
This is a good video of clutchless
http://www.evforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=570
These guys use a clutch in their kits
http://www.electroauto.com/info/parts.shtml
here is a good discussion - seems a good idea to keep the clutch
http://groups.google.com/group/civic-ev-kit/browse_thread/thread/4e5acb932c92f43f
bigger sepex from "alpha motors"
seems I can get a bigger sepex from "alpha motors" on ebay. Not much info so far but the motor is bigger (57kg) and supposedly rated to 120V 250A.
first problems is that it may not fit:
FRAME DIAMETER IS 8" X 18.1" L. (203x459mm)
I have just crawled under a mazda 121 and the distance from where the bell housing bolts onto the transfer case to the end of the second accessory drive pulley is about 490mm.
That would mean that if the electric motor frame could bolt up to say an 8mm adaptor plate that bolted onto where the bell housing would normally go then I should have enough space (maybe not for the accessory drive pulleys for ac and ps).
I still have to understand the clutch arrangement.
If I use this motor then i will just connect to the gearbox without a clutch as i will leave it in the most suitable gear (advantage of sepex).
first problems is that it may not fit:
FRAME DIAMETER IS 8" X 18.1" L. (203x459mm)
I have just crawled under a mazda 121 and the distance from where the bell housing bolts onto the transfer case to the end of the second accessory drive pulley is about 490mm.
That would mean that if the electric motor frame could bolt up to say an 8mm adaptor plate that bolted onto where the bell housing would normally go then I should have enough space (maybe not for the accessory drive pulleys for ac and ps).
I still have to understand the clutch arrangement.
If I use this motor then i will just connect to the gearbox without a clutch as i will leave it in the most suitable gear (advantage of sepex).
sepex problem distilled
I think that this post distills the sepex issue well. Inspires me to keep trying with the two sepexs
from:
http://www.mail-archive.com/ev@listproc.sjsu.edu/msg06741.html
from:
http://www.mail-archive.com/ev@listproc.sjsu.edu/msg06741.html
--- Begin Message ---On 7/31/06, David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:On 30 Jul 2006 at 21:22, Michaela Merz wrote:
> There are quite a few disadvantages with the available DC
> technology, regen braking, overspeeding of motors without load, full power on
> failures of controllers, just to name a few.
Ah, but the first two of these limitations are not characteristic of
seperately excited DC motors. They are limitations of the series-wound
forklift motors that most DCers run >because they are relatively cheap and
readily available<.Exactly. Most production EVs in Europe have a very nice Sepex drive,
using a Sagem controller and Leroy-Somer motor. As a package, it has
none of the disadvantages mentioned above, and it's single ratio as
well. In fact, I'd challenge any AC car to regen to an absolute stop
as well as my sepex one does!The problem is that there are few readily available sep-ex motors and
controllers suited to road EVs. I don't see this changing any time soon - in
fact with the adoption of AC induction motors in forklifts, it seems more
likely that those drives will fall to the price range that hobbyist EVers
are willing to pay before sep-ex drives do.Probably true. However I'm sure that anyone who really wanted could
take an ADC or similar old fashioned DC motor, have the field rewound
and make a really powerful sep-ex system out of a Zilla and a seperate
PWM field controller.
--- End Message ---
I think that I have decided....
I was ready to decide that regen and sepex were too hard. Looking at the prices of a series motor and controller however, it seems that it would actually be cheaper to buy two D&D motors and two sevcon powerpak controllers.
I will try to figure out how I can put one motor geared directly to each front driveshaft.
Challenges seem to be:
1. How to get the two controllers to speak to each other.
2. What are the motor curves for the motor?
3. How do I do the gearing - toothed belt would be nice but motorbike chain may be more realistic and easier to adjust.
4. how do I mount the shaft with the gear on to the driveshaft?
5. how do I mount a gear onto the motor drive shaft?
6. what is the appropriate fixed gearing?
here is the page from the manufacturer
http://www.clevelandelectronicservices.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=53&Itemid=64
I can get the controller from thunderstruck ev in the us for US$625 + shipping
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/controllers.htm
or from cleveland electric in australia (need to enquire about price)
http://www.clevelandelectronicservices.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=53&Itemid=64
I can get the controller from thunderstruck ev in the us for US$650 or US$750 + shipping
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/ddmotor.htm
I will try to figure out how I can put one motor geared directly to each front driveshaft.
Challenges seem to be:
1. How to get the two controllers to speak to each other.
2. What are the motor curves for the motor?
3. How do I do the gearing - toothed belt would be nice but motorbike chain may be more realistic and easier to adjust.
4. how do I mount the shaft with the gear on to the driveshaft?
5. how do I mount a gear onto the motor drive shaft?
6. what is the appropriate fixed gearing?
sourcing controller
here is the page from the manufacturer
http://www.clevelandelectronicservices.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=53&Itemid=64
I can get the controller from thunderstruck ev in the us for US$625 + shipping
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/controllers.htm
or from cleveland electric in australia (need to enquire about price)
http://www.clevelandelectronicservices.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=53&Itemid=64
sourcing motors
I can get the controller from thunderstruck ev in the us for US$650 or US$750 + shipping
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/ddmotor.htm
Friday, August 22, 2008
regen with series?
maybe possible with zapi controller
http://www.seattleeva.org/wiki/ZAPI_H2
if that is really possible then that would be nice as I could use the transwarp motor
from the zapi webpage
http://www.zapiweb.com/details.php?lang=eng&prod=5&type=&id=
or from the ev album page - they mention that regen works
http://www.evalbum.com/ctroller
But this is the solution...
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8848
If I can expect about 10% increase in range, my thoughts that it would be worth using the sierra, 2 drive motors just to get regen seems a little ridiculous. It also suggests that thought regen with series is possible, it is not really worth it.
http://www.seattleeva.org/wiki/ZAPI_H2
if that is really possible then that would be nice as I could use the transwarp motor
from the zapi webpage
http://www.zapiweb.com/details.php?lang=eng&prod=5&type=&id=
or from the ev album page - they mention that regen works
http://www.evalbum.com/ctroller
But this is the solution...
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8848
If I can expect about 10% increase in range, my thoughts that it would be worth using the sierra, 2 drive motors just to get regen seems a little ridiculous. It also suggests that thought regen with series is possible, it is not really worth it.
bigger sepex?
D&D got back to me to let me know that they could not supply a sepex big enough for the mazda.
after a brief flirtation with the idea that I could put 2 of their motors in the suzuki sierra, I think that we should stick with the 121 and figure out how to put a regen motor in it.
I found that zapi make a more powerful sepex controller (12kw)
http://www.zapiweb.com/details.php?lang=eng&prod=18&type=Technology&id=4
I still cannot find a bigger sepex motor.
after a brief flirtation with the idea that I could put 2 of their motors in the suzuki sierra, I think that we should stick with the 121 and figure out how to put a regen motor in it.
I found that zapi make a more powerful sepex controller (12kw)
http://www.zapiweb.com/details.php?lang=eng&prod=18&type=Technology&id=4
I still cannot find a bigger sepex motor.
Thursday, August 21, 2008
pm motors?
http://www.agnimotors.com/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=43
this guy is using one
http://www.evalbum.com/1529
This seems all a bit too good to be true
here are the curves
http://www.agnimotors.com/143-47rpm84v.pdf
the website states:
The maximum continuous current varies from about 80 amps at 12 volts to 160 amps at 60 volts; the limiting factor is the flow of cooling air through the motor and the continuous current at low voltages may be increased if ventilation is good.
Does that mean at 84V the continous current would be greater than 160A.
If it stays the same, then the curves suggest that 160A gives about 12kw and 30Nm which should be adequate for the car to go 72km/hr.
the bloke on the ev album suggests that his 96 turn motor can do 200A continouse and 400A for 30 sec.
Sounds like one motor would work?
this guy is using one
http://www.evalbum.com/1529
This seems all a bit too good to be true
here are the curves
http://www.agnimotors.com/143-47rpm84v.pdf
the website states:
The maximum continuous current varies from about 80 amps at 12 volts to 160 amps at 60 volts; the limiting factor is the flow of cooling air through the motor and the continuous current at low voltages may be increased if ventilation is good.
Does that mean at 84V the continous current would be greater than 160A.
If it stays the same, then the curves suggest that 160A gives about 12kw and 30Nm which should be adequate for the car to go 72km/hr.
the bloke on the ev album suggests that his 96 turn motor can do 200A continouse and 400A for 30 sec.
Sounds like one motor would work?
Wednesday, August 20, 2008
batteries
if 72 v system - seems I will need about 100ah
I should check out these links about LiPo
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=342&PID=2170
seems that LiPo would cost me $4000-5000
http://www.waeva.asn.au/batrun_tutorial.htm
from the spreadsheets - 15kWhr/ 100km seems to be what I would need.
this seems a bit strange as it is independant of vehicle speed.
quote from th thread above
As a general rule, work on 150-180 Wh/km for a light EV.
so for a 72V pack of 100ahr, I would get 48km if the batteries worked perfectly.
here is a sample calc
45 x 3.2v x 90Ahr Thundersky x 70% DOD x 1500 cycles = 13608Kw of power
If a battery pack costs $8000 that is a cost of $0.60 per Kwh
If my car gets 200wh/km that is a cost of 12c per km.
MY VERSION
25 x 3.2v x 90Ahr Thundersky x 70% DOD x 1500 cycles = 7560Kw of power
If a battery pack costs $4444
If my car gets 150wh/km that is range of 50km
also look at this site
http://www.evconvert.com/
the Aeva site has an entire forum on batteries
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_topics.asp?FID=17
here is a link to the greensaver batteries that are talked about a lot.
http://www.greensaver-gst.com/product.php
AGM options - sounds like from the electric echo blog that I should wait a couple of years for Lithium polymer batteries. With a bit of looking, I should be able to get away with about $2000 for the battery pack. This should last me 2-3 years. Then the appropriate direction for Lithium may be clearer.
110Ahr or 100Ahr (1hr - ????) $355
http://www.solaronline.com.au/cgi/index.cgi/shopfront/view_product_details?category_id=1107143916&product_id=1107358630
110Ahr (1hr - 60Ahr) - $305
http://www.fullriver.com/products/admin/upfile/DC110-12B.pdf
http://allpurposebatteries.com.au/shop/product_info.php?products_id=267&osCsid=d9b0f94e064ff2fb19e9079145417db6
http://www.fridge-and-solar.net/agm.htm
This is the mob that thunderstruck ev suggest
http://www.bb-battery.com/productseb.asp
odyssey batteries - way too expensive
http://www.extremebatteries.com.au/pdf/ODYSSEY%20Specs.pdf
40Ahr (1hr - 24Ahr) $100
This looks a pretty good bet! - maybe 18 * 40Ahr Makes the wiring a little easier as the two packs in the back would be in parallel to the pack in the front. Then I can add more range easily (maybe in boot) by adding another 6 batteries.
Are there problems with paralleling batteries?
http://www.soanarecotech.com/products/?group=P19
Same batteries here:
http://www.electusdistribution.com.au/productView.asp?ID=6560&CATID=18&keywords=&SPECIAL=&form=CAT&SUBCATID=190
I have found that these two batteries discussed are diamec batteries - here is a spec sheet
http://www.semicom.gr/UserFiles/Specifications%20and%20Technical%20data(3).pdf
The honda civic ev mob suggested deka batteres
here is their discussion
http://groups.google.com/group/civic-ev-kit/browse_thread/thread/4e5acb932c92f43f
here is where you buy them in australia - seems expensive
http://allpurposebatteries.com.au/shop/product_info.php?cPath=32&products_id=139&osCsid=5c74a240dad09a423732f68785581ac0
100Ahr (1hr - 64Ahr) $430
These were listed in the waeva spreadsheet - seem to have pretty good info
http://www.bcaaust.com.au/batteries.html
here they have some prices
http://www.agmsaustralia.com/agms/products/12volt/
http://www.batteriesdirect.com.au/shop/store.php?crn=230&rn=546&action=show_detail
6 of these? (probably not okay as they are Gel not AGM)
http://www.energymatters.com.au/haze-gel-deep-cycle-battery-12volt-100ah-n70-p-111.html?zenid=6e390defcf742955b0be1a9f78f7ba1b
have a look at the comment on here about types of batteres
http://a4x4kiwi.blogspot.com/2008/04/greensaver-silicon-batteries.html
Comment on AEVA that you should not discharge to 80% too often
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=301
Also don't count on discharging to 80%DOD everyday, your pack will have a very short life if you do, (280 cycles) Its best to size your pack so your not discharging below 50%DOD on a daily basis when using lead acid. You also have to take into account loss of capacity due to cold weather (i cant remember how cold it gets in SA).
waeva spreadsheet
here is the link to the spreadsheet
http://www.waeva.asn.au/batrun_tutorial.htm
I should check out these links about LiPo
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=342&PID=2170
seems that LiPo would cost me $4000-5000
http://www.waeva.asn.au/batrun_tutorial.htm
from the spreadsheets - 15kWhr/ 100km seems to be what I would need.
this seems a bit strange as it is independant of vehicle speed.
quote from th thread above
As a general rule, work on 150-180 Wh/km for a light EV.
so for a 72V pack of 100ahr, I would get 48km if the batteries worked perfectly.
here is a sample calc
45 x 3.2v x 90Ahr Thundersky x 70% DOD x 1500 cycles = 13608Kw of power
If a battery pack costs $8000 that is a cost of $0.60 per Kwh
If my car gets 200wh/km that is a cost of 12c per km.
MY VERSION
25 x 3.2v x 90Ahr Thundersky x 70% DOD x 1500 cycles = 7560Kw of power
If a battery pack costs $4444
If my car gets 150wh/km that is range of 50km
also look at this site
http://www.evconvert.com/
the Aeva site has an entire forum on batteries
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_topics.asp?FID=17
here is a link to the greensaver batteries that are talked about a lot.
http://www.greensaver-gst.com/product.php
AGM
AGM options - sounds like from the electric echo blog that I should wait a couple of years for Lithium polymer batteries. With a bit of looking, I should be able to get away with about $2000 for the battery pack. This should last me 2-3 years. Then the appropriate direction for Lithium may be clearer.
Remco AGM RM12-100
110Ahr or 100Ahr (1hr - ????) $355
sources
http://www.solaronline.com.au/cgi/index.cgi/shopfront/view_product_details?category_id=1107143916&product_id=1107358630
spec sheet
Fullriver
110Ahr (1hr - 60Ahr) - $305
spec sheet
http://www.fullriver.com/products/admin/upfile/DC110-12B.pdf
sources
http://allpurposebatteries.com.au/shop/product_info.php?products_id=267&osCsid=d9b0f94e064ff2fb19e9079145417db6
http://www.fridge-and-solar.net/agm.htm
BB batteries
This is the mob that thunderstruck ev suggest
http://www.bb-battery.com/productseb.asp
odyssey batteries
odyssey batteries - way too expensive
http://www.extremebatteries.com.au/pdf/ODYSSEY%20Specs.pdf
diamec
40Ahr (1hr - 24Ahr) $100
This looks a pretty good bet! - maybe 18 * 40Ahr Makes the wiring a little easier as the two packs in the back would be in parallel to the pack in the front. Then I can add more range easily (maybe in boot) by adding another 6 batteries.
Are there problems with paralleling batteries?
http://www.soanarecotech.com/products/?group=P19
Same batteries here:
http://www.electusdistribution.com.au/productView.asp?ID=6560&CATID=18&keywords=&SPECIAL=&form=CAT&SUBCATID=190
I have found that these two batteries discussed are diamec batteries - here is a spec sheet
http://www.semicom.gr/UserFiles/Specifications%20and%20Technical%20data(3).pdf
deka
The honda civic ev mob suggested deka batteres
here is their discussion
http://groups.google.com/group/civic-ev-kit/browse_thread/thread/4e5acb932c92f43f
here is where you buy them in australia - seems expensive
http://allpurposebatteries.com.au/shop/product_info.php?cPath=32&products_id=139&osCsid=5c74a240dad09a423732f68785581ac0
absorbed power
100Ahr (1hr - 64Ahr) $430
These were listed in the waeva spreadsheet - seem to have pretty good info
http://www.bcaaust.com.au/batteries.html
here they have some prices
http://www.agmsaustralia.com/agms/products/12volt/
Lifeline Batteries
http://www.batteriesdirect.com.au/shop/store.php?crn=230&rn=546&action=show_detail
Haze
6 of these? (probably not okay as they are Gel not AGM)
http://www.energymatters.com.au/haze-gel-deep-cycle-battery-12volt-100ah-n70-p-111.html?zenid=6e390defcf742955b0be1a9f78f7ba1b
other comments
have a look at the comment on here about types of batteres
http://a4x4kiwi.blogspot.com/2008/04/greensaver-silicon-batteries.html
Comment on AEVA that you should not discharge to 80% too often
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=301
Also don't count on discharging to 80%DOD everyday, your pack will have a very short life if you do, (280 cycles) Its best to size your pack so your not discharging below 50%DOD on a daily basis when using lead acid. You also have to take into account loss of capacity due to cold weather (i cant remember how cold it gets in SA).
waeva spreadsheet
here is the link to the spreadsheet
http://www.waeva.asn.au/batrun_tutorial.htm
adapters
Big challenge will be the adapter
I tried to order a CD from this bloke - we will see what happens when he realises I am in Australia
www.grassrootsev.com
I tried to order a CD from this bloke - we will see what happens when he realises I am in Australia
www.grassrootsev.com
bigger sepex?
Have a look at this guy - he may get more stuff on with time
http://www.hitorqueelectric.com/
same guy talking about using forklift motor
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/using-forklift-motor-and-choosing-good-7598.html
while I was looking, I found this comparision of motors
http://www.zev.dk/misc/torque-curves.gif
http://www.hitorqueelectric.com/
same guy talking about using forklift motor
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/using-forklift-motor-and-choosing-good-7598.html
while I was looking, I found this comparision of motors
http://www.zev.dk/misc/torque-curves.gif
Wednesday, August 13, 2008
specs for D&D
This is a list of the information that D&D would like for them to recommend a motor. It is probably a worthwhile exercise to figure this stuff out anyway. I will gradually fill it in.
seems like I might pull out about 100kg of stuff and add about 2-300kg of stuff
I need to check how much extra weight (batteries etc) I will actually have.
1100kg (conservative)
1400kg (conservative)
What differential / transmission does (or will) the vehicle have?
FWD manual transaxle - B5M-R
1st - 3.454
2nd - 1.944
3rd - 1.392
4th - 1.030
5th - 0.810
Reverse - 4.058
Final Drive Ratio - 4.058
Vehicle Information
*Vehicle Type(brand) :
Mazda 121No Load Vehicle Weight :
I think about 900kg standard (need to check)seems like I might pull out about 100kg of stuff and add about 2-300kg of stuff
I need to check how much extra weight (batteries etc) I will actually have.
1100kg (conservative)
Full Load Vehicle Weight :
at most another 300kg (four people + some other stuff)1400kg (conservative)
Drive Wheel Diameter :
13 inch (need to check)Rolling Tire Radius :
What differential / transmission does (or will) the vehicle have?
And/Or describe the mechanical design.
FWD manual transaxle - B5M-RDifferential / Transmission & Axle Ratio :
1st - 3.454
2nd - 1.944
3rd - 1.392
4th - 1.030
5th - 0.810
Reverse - 4.058
Final Drive Ratio - 4.058
Differential / Transmission & Axle Efficiency :
* Max. Vehicle No Load Speed (on level ground):
70km/hr* Max. Vehicle Full Load Speed (on level ground):
60km/hrMinimum Vehicle Full Speed up % Grade
*Controller Make and Model :
sevcon powerpak (user manual)Motor Requirements
H.P. :
15-20?RPM :
Max depends on final transmission ratioMax AMPS :
425 - based on planned controller*VOLTS :
80 - based on controllerDuty Cycle Requirements :
*Quantity of Motors Per Year :
1Comments :
Wish to see if sepex is possibleSend Vehicle Photo ( .jpg, .gif, .tif, .png) :
Monday, August 11, 2008
regen with series DC
I am at the stage that the only benefit of sepex over series DC seems to be regen abilitiy.
If I can be satisfied that regen is okay with series then I think that I will go that way as that is a much more standard way to go with components easier to find.
This seems to be pretty conclusive...
"In particular you cannot get regenerative braking with a series wound motor."
[ http://www.4qd.co.uk/faq/bmnc3.html#motch ]
If I can be satisfied that regen is okay with series then I think that I will go that way as that is a much more standard way to go with components easier to find.
This seems to be pretty conclusive...
"In particular you cannot get regenerative braking with a series wound motor."
[ http://www.4qd.co.uk/faq/bmnc3.html#motch ]
Sunday, August 10, 2008
seems that I should also keep the clutch
At least to start with, it seems like a good idea to keep the clutch
I know that I should know this already but here is the clutch explanation
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/clutch1.htm
Seems that I would need to make a flywheel that bolted onto the motor shaft and a stationary plate to bolt to the bell housing equivalent.
although all these kits use clutchless connections
http://e-volks.com/electric_car_conversions.html
these conversions use a clutch
http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/adaptors.shtml
but are very expensive - easier without a clutch?
here is a good comparison...
http://civic-ev.blogspot.com/2008/05/ordering-motor-adapter.html
which is a summary of
http://groups.google.com/group/civic-ev-kit/browse_thread/thread/4e5acb932c92f43f
seems to be about $875 us for the adapter plate kit
http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/price-pts.shtml
here is a good place to start
http://www.evconvert.com/article/your-first-electric-car
come back to that later - now I need to sort out mechatronics urgently
Here is a good diagram from d&d motor systems showing what is needed.
I think where I am at is to use the gearbox and a clutch with a d&d sepex motor and sevcon powerpack controller (72V system)
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/ddmotor.htm
I have no idea what sort of d&d motor this is though - that will decide if it is a goer!!
although it seems that it is going to be a bit marginal with power :-(
only real advantage of sepex now is regen!
I know that I should know this already but here is the clutch explanation
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/clutch1.htm
Seems that I would need to make a flywheel that bolted onto the motor shaft and a stationary plate to bolt to the bell housing equivalent.
although all these kits use clutchless connections
http://e-volks.com/electric_car_conversions.html
these conversions use a clutch
http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/adaptors.shtml
but are very expensive - easier without a clutch?
here is a good comparison...
http://civic-ev.blogspot.com/2008/05/ordering-motor-adapter.html
which is a summary of
http://groups.google.com/group/civic-ev-kit/browse_thread/thread/4e5acb932c92f43f
seems to be about $875 us for the adapter plate kit
http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/price-pts.shtml
here is a good place to start
http://www.evconvert.com/article/your-first-electric-car
come back to that later - now I need to sort out mechatronics urgently
Here is a good diagram from d&d motor systems showing what is needed.
I think where I am at is to use the gearbox and a clutch with a d&d sepex motor and sevcon powerpack controller (72V system)
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/ddmotor.htm
I have no idea what sort of d&d motor this is though - that will decide if it is a goer!!
although it seems that it is going to be a bit marginal with power :-(
only real advantage of sepex now is regen!
maybe the gearbox is a good thing!!!
this seems a pretty good argument for keeping the gearbox
http://www.cafeelectricpress.com/blog/?p=22
Although the factory evs all seem to have no gearboxes.
current thinking....
keep the gearbox and put in sepex for regen.
obviously heaps more thought required.
Hopefully the 121 manual that I ordered last night will help out!!
http://www.cafeelectricpress.com/blog/?p=22
Although the factory evs all seem to have no gearboxes.
current thinking....
keep the gearbox and put in sepex for regen.
obviously heaps more thought required.
Hopefully the 121 manual that I ordered last night will help out!!
Will two motors really work?
Rationale.
I am keen to use sepex and it seems that that smaller 8hp sep ex motors running at 36v are much easier to come by than higher power units. If I have to use two of these to get the power, then it would seem to make sense to drive each front wheel from a motor (maybe I need a timing belt reductioBlogger: elowly - Create Postn to get correct speed).
Do I need two controllers? How do I syncronise them? If I have one controller, can I just connect the motors in series? Can I find a 72V sepex controller?
Otherwise, can I just use a front diff and a larger sepex - as in
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_motors_sepex.php
here is a link with some comments on dual motors
http://www.mail-archive.com/ev@listproc.sjsu.edu/msg05516.html
I am keen to use sepex and it seems that that smaller 8hp sep ex motors running at 36v are much easier to come by than higher power units. If I have to use two of these to get the power, then it would seem to make sense to drive each front wheel from a motor (maybe I need a timing belt reductioBlogger: elowly - Create Postn to get correct speed).
Do I need two controllers? How do I syncronise them? If I have one controller, can I just connect the motors in series? Can I find a 72V sepex controller?
Otherwise, can I just use a front diff and a larger sepex - as in
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_motors_sepex.php
here is a link with some comments on dual motors
http://www.mail-archive.com/ev@listproc.sjsu.edu/msg05516.html
sepex controller possibilities
do they have regen, CAN connection?
I thought that I needed this "multimode thing that curtis has but I am not so sure. If you can set one "throttle response" curve, that may be all I need.
curtis seems the best but I cannot find anyone that sells them. This seems the only one that can be configured for different "modes" that seems vital to utilise the benefits of sepex. If I am correct, these modes should be able to be used as gears (I am not so sure now).
ev motorsport have two possible controllers, alltrax and sevcon. Alltrax seem to be the lower power ones.
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_motors_sepex.php
here is the manual for the configuration - seems you cannot use different "modes" as you can in curtis versions
http://www.alltraxinc.com/files/Doc120-017-C_OP-Controller-Pro.pdf
These guys seem to have the most power, but no modes. I am not sure that I need quite this much power if I am planning to use two motors.
http://www.sevcon.com/pages/powerpakSEM.html
kelly seems to have regen but no "modes"
$289 in the shop: http://www.kellycontroller.com/shop/?mod=product&cat_id=27,4&product_id=128
here is the operating manual:
http://www.kellycontroller.com/mot/KellyKDUserManual.pdf
I thought that I needed this "multimode thing that curtis has but I am not so sure. If you can set one "throttle response" curve, that may be all I need.
Curtis
http://www.alltraxinc.com/files/Doc120-017-C_OP-Controller-Pro.pdfcurtis seems the best but I cannot find anyone that sells them. This seems the only one that can be configured for different "modes" that seems vital to utilise the benefits of sepex. If I am correct, these modes should be able to be used as gears (I am not so sure now).
Alltrax
ev motorsport have two possible controllers, alltrax and sevcon. Alltrax seem to be the lower power ones.
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_motors_sepex.php
here is the manual for the configuration - seems you cannot use different "modes" as you can in curtis versions
http://www.alltraxinc.com/files/Doc120-017-C_OP-Controller-Pro.pdf
Sevcon
These guys seem to have the most power, but no modes. I am not sure that I need quite this much power if I am planning to use two motors.
http://www.sevcon.com/pages/powerpakSEM.html
Kelly
kelly seems to have regen but no "modes"
$289 in the shop: http://www.kellycontroller.com/shop/?mod=product&cat_id=27,4&product_id=128
here is the operating manual:
http://www.kellycontroller.com/mot/KellyKDUserManual.pdf
Wednesday, August 6, 2008
sepex - next thing to look into
I am still attracted to the idea of doing away with the gearbox and driving the driveshafts directly.
Seems that the use of two separately excited motors would be the way to go for this.
Main drawbacks could be efficiency and available controllers.
If I could find a series controller that was current controlled then maybe I could just use two controllers (one for main windings and one for field windings).
The other problem would be finding two small enough sepex motors.
There may also be issues with getting the gearing correct. Prob safest to run a toothed belt drive to each drive shaft so that the mechanical gearing can be varied to ensure that the motor runs most efficiently at normal driving speed (maybe 50-60km/hr)
This sounds like a bit more fun on the control side and less just copying everyone else. It also allows work to be done before the vehicle is purchased. The mechanical conversion is probably also easier.
I think that I want two of these connected in series (72v system, 17hp)
http://www.cloudelectric.com/inc/sdetail/1065
sep ex controller
curtis faq (sepex)
packages
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/ddmotor.htm
seems fro the general curtis faq that connecting two motors in series should be okay
http://curtisinst.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=FAQ.ListMotorControllers
Seems that the use of two separately excited motors would be the way to go for this.
Main drawbacks could be efficiency and available controllers.
If I could find a series controller that was current controlled then maybe I could just use two controllers (one for main windings and one for field windings).
The other problem would be finding two small enough sepex motors.
There may also be issues with getting the gearing correct. Prob safest to run a toothed belt drive to each drive shaft so that the mechanical gearing can be varied to ensure that the motor runs most efficiently at normal driving speed (maybe 50-60km/hr)
This sounds like a bit more fun on the control side and less just copying everyone else. It also allows work to be done before the vehicle is purchased. The mechanical conversion is probably also easier.
I think that I want two of these connected in series (72v system, 17hp)
http://www.cloudelectric.com/inc/sdetail/1065
sep ex controller
curtis faq (sepex)
packages
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/ddmotor.htm
seems fro the general curtis faq that connecting two motors in series should be okay
http://curtisinst.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=FAQ.ListMotorControllers
possible motors
need to sort out what motor and what voltage
Maybe the Classic ADC version? But check out the curves that they link to - looks a bit medieval!
Is sepex the answer - does it avoid the gearbox? Does not look as efficient as the series versions
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/ddmotor.htm
other D&D - similar to the ADC 4001
http://www.cloudelectric.com/inc/sdetail/3271
or a slightly smaller version - 72-96
http://www.cloudelectric.com/inc/sdetail/1045
I will need to fill this in and see what they suggest from the d&d site
http://ddmotorsystems.com/DriveQuote.shtml
and maybe join the mailing list
http://ddmotorsystems.com/MailingList.shtml
but bedtime now.
Maybe the Classic ADC version? But check out the curves that they link to - looks a bit medieval!
Is sepex the answer - does it avoid the gearbox? Does not look as efficient as the series versions
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/ddmotor.htm
other D&D - similar to the ADC 4001
http://www.cloudelectric.com/inc/sdetail/3271
or a slightly smaller version - 72-96
http://www.cloudelectric.com/inc/sdetail/1045
I will need to fill this in and see what they suggest from the d&d site
http://ddmotorsystems.com/DriveQuote.shtml
and maybe join the mailing list
http://ddmotorsystems.com/MailingList.shtml
but bedtime now.
Kelly controller
If I use a Kelly controller - here is the user manual
http://www.kellycontroller.com/mot/KellyKDUserManual.pdf
they seem to be a lot cheaper if you go stick to a 72V (rated voltage) system. I will have to do some calcs to see if I can get away with a 72V (or 84V with regen - need to know more about this) system.
http://www.kellycontroller.com/mot/KellyKDUserManual.pdf
they seem to be a lot cheaper if you go stick to a 72V (rated voltage) system. I will have to do some calcs to see if I can get away with a 72V (or 84V with regen - need to know more about this) system.
Thinking at the moment
The car is almost certainly going to be a mazda 121. Kelly is happy that it is an interesting enough car. A moke or a mini would be good but I think that I would spend more time working on the nonelectric bits of the car.
I was thinking of going with dual etek motors directly but that seems to be a bad idea. See link
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=44441
The reason for going for the dual etek was for greater efficiency with the pm motor but as the curves for the etek seem to have similar efficiency to a warp series wound motor that is not really relevant
curves for etek
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/images/EV_Parts/motors/ETEK-RT%20Performance%20Data.pdf
curves for impuse warp 9
http://www.go-ev.com/images/003_07_ImPulse_9_Graph.jpg
I am leaning towards using the warp motors as they have better published data. I have to do more research as to which is the best to use.
There is a vehicle on the vehicle archives similar to what I am planning
http://www.evalbum.com/1700
He has kept the gearbox which I think is a wise idea.
I think that I will use a Kelly controller as it is cheaper and more programmable - see discussion in link
http://www.cloudelectric.com/kits_to_use_in_an_ev_#5
so - car, motor and controller temporarily sorted out. Time to go to bed
I was thinking of going with dual etek motors directly but that seems to be a bad idea. See link
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=44441
The reason for going for the dual etek was for greater efficiency with the pm motor but as the curves for the etek seem to have similar efficiency to a warp series wound motor that is not really relevant
curves for etek
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/images/EV_Parts/motors/ETEK-RT%20Performance%20Data.pdf
curves for impuse warp 9
http://www.go-ev.com/images/003_07_ImPulse_9_Graph.jpg
I am leaning towards using the warp motors as they have better published data. I have to do more research as to which is the best to use.
There is a vehicle on the vehicle archives similar to what I am planning
http://www.evalbum.com/1700
He has kept the gearbox which I think is a wise idea.
I think that I will use a Kelly controller as it is cheaper and more programmable - see discussion in link
http://www.cloudelectric.com/kits_to_use_in_an_ev_#5
so - car, motor and controller temporarily sorted out. Time to go to bed
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